31 Dec: Gerald Weston of LCG writes: “Mr. Jonathan McNair will be moving to Charlotte to coordinate our educational programs for the ministry, for members, and for the next generation. Adam West will return from the United Kingdom and will replace Mr. McNair as Northeast Regional Pastor. Mr. Peter Nathan will be moving to the United Kingdom to replace Mr. West; and Mr. Bobby Jacques, our newest hire, should be in Kansas City within a week or two.”
30 Dec: Our condolences go out to the family and congregation of John Vonderhaar of the Greater Phoenix Church of God who passed away at home surrounded by his loving family on December 22nd at 4:43 am. John felt very ill in early morning of 18 November and was diagnosed with stage 4 liver and colon cancer.
29 Dec: UCG News: The “de Campos, McNeely and Myers couples are now in South Africa conducting a leadership seminar during the time of an annual family summer camp which is held near Bloemfontein.
Paul Moody has been named pastor of the congregations in Spokane, Kennewick and Kettle Falls, Washington, and Lewiston, Idaho, beginning January 1. Mr. Moody worked as an Assistant Pastor for the congregations with his wife, Darla, for the previous six years, assisting pastor Mark Mickelson. Mr. Mickelson is retiring from employment at the end of December.”
27 Dec: Fred Coulter’s small Christian Biblical Church of God is shrinking. The CBCG in the United Kingdom is in trouble after David Obey resigned as CBCG manager in the UK early this year. After that the new manager has now recently resigned in frustration because many were leaving and no one was interested in attending a Coulter Feast site in the UK, and there was no CBCG feast site in the UK this year.
The UK subscribers to Fred’s material who have decided to continue are now receiving their regular mailings from Sydney, Australia.
See today’s very important must read post detailing what will happen in the coming months and years.
LCG: Bobby Jacques has been hired for the full-time ministry and should be in Kansas City for further training in the next few weeks
21 Dec: A COG member has posted a few video clips of Herbert Armstrong here.
COGWA News: The January-February 2018 edition of Discern Magazine is now online.
Clyde Kilough asks, in his article, ‘How to Spot a Counterfeit Church’:
“Fake Faith: What would you do, how would you feel, if you discovered your religion was counterfeit?
Most of us have been “given” our religion by our parents, or maybe we “shopped” for one we liked. Is it possible that, in all innocence, we possess a fake belief? …
Look at the thousands of denominations in the world today representing differing interpretations of what Christ did and said. Isn’t that a problem?”
Clyde Kilough condemns himself and COGWA since he was “given” his religion by his parents. He became a minister in that religion, the Worldwide Church of God. After the founder – who changed many doctrines many times himself – died, his successor began to change its doctrines, starting with the nature of God (the Trinity).
Clyde faithfully taught the “new truth” until he was about to be laid off – which must have been a “fake faith” – since he has subsequently changed his teaching on the subject and also changed churches twice, each of these teaching revised versions of the previous “truth”.
Today his church COGWA is a social club just like UCG and LCG; but COGWA is the worst in casting out anyone zealous for the Sabbath, the Biblical Calendar and anyone zealous to live by the Word of God.
How can you tell if your religion is false? Easy, if its focus is heavily on social activities and not on doctrine, if it is not consistent with every Word of God and if it persecutes those who are zealous for God’s Word and Sabbath: It is a false religion!
UCG News: “We will continue our Online Training Program beginning on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, at 10 a.m. Eastern time. The classes will begin again with the Major Prophets with Dr. Frank Dunkle instructing.”
It just happens that I have been hard at work rewriting our own major prophets series; with the series on Isaiah to begin on December 25.
President Victor Kubik writes, December 21st, about “the largest gathering of United Church of God members in one place … larger than any Feast site.” “One of the biggest weeks of the year for us here in Cincinnati begins Friday evening with the annual Winter Family Weekend.
Media Director, Peter Eddington, writes, December 22nd, that a “massive print ad campaign will feature two study aids which have proved highly successful in previous advertising efforts. These include “How to Understand the Bible” and “Heaven and Hell: What Does the Bible Really Teach?”
Both of these study aids have generated very good cost-per-response in previous efforts compared to other study aids that had also been tested.
This newest promotional effort will take place using three separate coupon venues: 1) Valassis Sunday newspaper inserts will be placed in 70 million households in nearly every state. 2) M-Spark postal mail wraps, which are delivered directly into mailboxes by the postal carriers, will reach 5 million homes located mostly in the South and Midwest. 3) Parade Magazine’s Sunday newspaper insert edition will reach 5 million households in a variety of states.”
20 Dec COGWA News: Jim Franks writes
The Ministerial Board of Directors was in town Dec. 4-6 for the board’s annual meeting. The board is made up of Joel Meeker (chairman), Richard Thompson, Leon Walker, Larry Salyer, David Baker, Arnold Hampton and Richard Pinelli. The primary agenda item each year is approval of the strategic plan, the operation plans and the budget for the next fiscal year (Jan. 1 to Dec. 31, 2018).
The Church experienced its highest-attended Feast this past year. Our total attendance (including those watching DVDs, listening to MP3s or logging on to a webcast) was more than 10,700, compared to 10,400 in 2016.
We are projecting that this year will end with a 3 to 5 percent increase in income over what we budgeted, and a 2 to 3 percent decrease in expenditures.
19 Dec: Ian Boyne the evangelical who served the CGI Jamaica has died.
17 Dec: Ron Harmon of The House of God located in Texas was forced to resign because he objected to using the word Amen to end prayers.
Ron insists that Amen is in fact honoring the Egyptian God “Amun”. Since only certain Sacred Names groups hold to this gross error it seems that Ron was entering the SC camp and needed to be removed before he began to spread that heresy.
The Hebrew word Amen means “so be it” and has nothing to do with the Egyptian word Amun (pronounced Amoon) even though Amun has sometimes been misspelled as Amen.
In the latest weekly update LCG leader Doug Winnail misapplies the scriptures as he exhorts brethren to be loyal to LCG. Doug says “To avoid being deceived and led astray, we need to follow Paul’s admonition and “continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them” (2 Timothy 3:13-14). Brethren, let’s prove and hold on to the Truth!”
Of course Doug means that brethren should hold fast to the teachings of LCG, while Paul is referring to the truth of the Holy Scriptures which was faithfully taught by Jesus and the apostles who with the prophets wrote the scriptures. Paul was not referring to the false traditions of men who make assumptions and then seek verses to support those false assumptions.
To find the truth we must ask God for understanding and then we must put ALL scriptures on any subject together, and every teaching must also be absolutely consistent with every other part of Holy Scripture.
Example: To say that the Feast of Tabernacles represent the 1,000 year millennium is pure imagination and there is absolutely NOTHING anywhere in all scripture that even implies that the seven day Feast of Tabernacles represents the millennium. Indeed the scriptures say: 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. To learn the true meaning of God’s Biblical Festivals visit TheShiningLight School of Biblical Studies and access the Sabbath and Festival Categories on the right hand sidebar. Also visit the Calendar Category at this and see what HWA really taught about the Calendar.
To cling to the truth, one must first learn and know the truth. TheShiningLight Biblical studies presents verse by verse studies through the entire Bible, EVERY Word of God! as a foundation for our doctrinal studies. NONE of the COG groups do that, not even LCG!
13 Dec: The December 2017 UCG Coe Report has been posted here. Mark Mickelson is retiring at the end of December. No mention was made concerning Mark’s replacement on the CoE. There are a number of other interesting news items making this worth reading carefully.
10 Dec: LCG’s Gerald Weston writes:
. . . meetings were held this week to discuss an educational overview for the Living Church of God. The committee was made up from staff representing Living University, the Business Office, Television, Internet, Editorial and Legal Departments, and the field ministry. Our focus is to bring together all educational efforts in a comprehensive approach, taking into account all our members. Special additional attention will be given to ministers and future ministers as well as what we would like to term “NextGeneration.”
Our current plans are to make online courses available to all members free of charge beginning in August. We also plan to have a one-year on-site resident work/study program here in Charlotte for high school graduates.
theshininglight.info has been providing studies through every word of Holy Scripture for about ten years now. It is really great to see LCG following our lead and I really mean that, for far too long the various COG entities have been denying a good education in the scriptures to most of their brethren. Unfortunately LCG’s online courses for the brethren will teach LCG traditions rather than scriptural truth.
LCG will also feature a one year resident work/study program for ministerial potentials with a high school graduation certificate.
7 Dec: According to Living University’s 2017-8 catalog page 23, LCG has about 11,600 members at the end of 2016.
“Living Church of God membership around the world was about 11,600 (approximately 6,300 in the USA and 5,300 internationally).” However they admit that “Average weekly [early 2017] church service attendance is about 9,000.” The terms “about” or “approximately” indicate that they are using the highest possible estimates.
Note, that this catalog was published early in 2017 before many began to depart after the passing of Rod Meredith, the figures are therefore probably higher than the final 2017 yearly average will be.
Average daily Tabernacles attendance in 2016 was posted as 10,400 at that time and since average Sabbath attendance was less than 9,000, it appears that the daily Tabernacles attendance in 2017 [months after the passing of Meredith] was probably down from the 10,400 figure published in 2016.
The focus of the December 2017 UCG CoE was the construction of a new media center. Building contracts were approved at the Conference.
UCG now estimates costs for planning, construction and equipping their new media center to be over $950,000. $700,000 in special donations have already been received.
Burk McNair died this past Tuesday evening in Denver, Colorado, at the age of 85. He was preceded in death by his wife, Billie Sue, earlier this year. Gary Petty will officiate at his funeral this coming Sunday.
LCG reports total 2016 revenues of $19,455,806. Expenses were $18,934,733 for the year, and the net income was $521,073. See LCG Financial Reports 2015-2016. The 2017 report will not be out for nearly another year.
5 Dec: Ian Boyne of CGI was rushed to hospital following a heart attack last week and is in a medically induced coma.
3 Dec: The January 2018 issue of The Philadelphia Trumpet magazine is now online. In the leading article, ‘America’s Greatest Defeat – Iran’s Victory’, Gerald Flurry claims: “If God labels Iran ‘king of the south’, that means it rules the Middle East! Most people haven’t recognized that – especially in earlier years, although more people see it now.”
Of course God HAS NOT labeled Iran the king of the south! and the term king of the south has nothing to do with ruling the Middle East. The king of the south will be defeated by the now rising New Federal Europe allied with the nations of Psalm 83 [Turkey, the Arabs, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and the Palestinians].
Iran being the king of the south and dominating the Middle East, is Gerald Flurry’s contrary to scripture fantasy!
The scriptures tell us by Daniel 11 that the king of the south is Egypt, which at that time also occupied Judea Palestine. Today, Egypt and her allies Judah and Israel are the king of the south, which will be overcome by the now rising New Federal Europe!
The regime in Iran is about to be overthrown as I have consistently warned for the past nine years! Will PCG survive the failure of its distinctive feature belief? Especially after featuring it so prominently just months before Iran changes, due to an American take out of their Revolutionary Guards?
LCG: LCG seems to be jumping on false prophet Bob Thiel’s Guttenberg express, reporting:
“Just prior to the recent German elections, former German Defense Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg spoke at a rally in Bavaria, where 1,000 people came to support him (Financial Times, September 1, 2017). . . . However, many Germans want him back and see him as their future Chancellor. One policy analyst observed, “He is a charismatic politician in a political landscape not overloaded with charisma,” while onlookers at his rally described him as “brilliant,” “captivating,” and “the savior of us all.” Chancellor Angela Merkel reports she is “in good contact” with zu Guttenberg—one of her ardent supporters. Other leading German politicians have mapped different ways for him to return to the top of German politics. Where Guttenberg’s future will lead is uncertain. However, Bible prophecy reveals that an end-time charismatic individual will lead a German-led European power called the “beast” at the time of Christ’s return. This leader will work with a powerful religious figure to influence ten European leaders to give their power to this “beast” (see Revelation 17). While there have been a number of charismatic figures who have come and gone in Europe, someone is going to fill this prophesied role. It is worth keeping an eye on this charismatic and ambitious politician still backed by many of Germany’s elite. For more on the future of Germany and Europe, read “Resurgent Germany: A Fourth Reich?””
This Guttenberg fixation originates from the continuing influence of Thiel’s close buddy Michael Germano in LCG. It is a big mistake to stray from the scriptures and even imply personal predictions about which individuals might in future fulfill scripture, this is all in God’s hands.
LCG’s Gerald Weston writes: We have meetings scheduled this coming week to map out plans for an educational program for our ministry, members, and the youth of the Church. Living University is being closed. They should have done this many years ago instead of wasting millions on the pretentiously misnamed, Living “University”.
2 Dec: Special Sabbath Music.
26 Nov: Grant Turgeon’s report, Pastor General Speaks on Future Vision at Fall Festival, provides further explanation regarding the ‘Stone of Destiny’and the ‘Throne of David’.
“On day 4, Mr. Flurry delivered another extra-length sermon. He reviewed the revelation he announced in January about the Church possessing a new stone of destiny and a new throne of David, calling it a “radical leap” for the Church.
Gerald Flurry has declared that he is a kind of king over spiritual Israel and is holding his personal “Stone of Scone” the supposed Armstrong “Prayer Rock,” so that Christ will come to him for his coronation as King of kings. Why not? He already claims to be an apostle and “That Prophet,” a title belonging exclusively to Jesus Christ. The man’s advanced senility complicated by decades of alcoholism has gotten the better of him, yet some in PCG are awed by the claim. For the truth about the heritage of David and the Stone see our articles here.
Ron Weinland is now admitting that he has lost many of his 500 followers since the Feast.
Our study on the Ten Tribes Locations and the Davidic Line has been published at the Biblical Studies Site.
Michael Germano announces that the Spring 2018 Semester will be the last for Living University. Gerald Weston writes: We intend to “reorganize outside of the higher education university model, and this is what we have chosen to do.
Now let me bring you into some of our thinking at this time. There are three major groups to be served: 1) ministers and potential ministers, 2) the general membership, 3) the next generation (youth and young adults).
Our intention is to benefit from what we’ve learned over the last decade and use material already produced to reshape an educational program that will serve each group even more effectively. For example, we plan to make some of the video class lectures and classroom material available free online to our members.”
This means that LU will close down as a “University” and LCG will use the existing material is another way.
Gerald Weston’s November 10 semi-annual letter titles “The Antichrist and the Beast of Revelation” has gone out.
As attendance and income falls Doug Winnail writes: “Trials Test Our Faith: The Apostle Paul warned, “know this, that in the last days perilous times will come” (2 Timothy 3:1). Jesus predicted that the end of the age would be marked by increasing trials and turmoil on a global scale (Matthew 24). Jesus also wondered aloud, “when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8), and He prayed that Peter’s faith would not fail when he encountered trials and tribulation (Luke 22:32). When the challenges of life begin to mount, we need to remember that faith is one of the fruits of God’s Spirit (Galatians 5:22) and that God gives His Spirit to those who trust Him and obey His instructions (Acts 5:32). We must also do our part to stir up God’s Spirit to help us overcome our trials and fears (2 Timothy 1:6-7). We can also ask for more faith (Luke 17:5). We need to remember that faith comes from hearing (and studying) God’s word (Romans 10:17), which states that God is faithful and He watches over those who love Him and keep His commandments (Deuteronomy 7:9). We are also told that God knows what we can handle and that He will make a way for us to get through our trials (1 Corinthians 10:13). Let’s remember to ask God for His help and guidance and the faith we need to get through trials as we study the biblical examples of others who also faced trials in their lives.
Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
22 Nov: LCG: After falling attendance and income in 2018, Gerald Weston appeals to the LCG brethren.
UCG: Ron Barker has been named pastor of the United Church of God congregation in Dayton, Ohio. Mr. Barker has worked as an Assistant Pastor for the congregation with his wife, Janet, for the past 12 months, assisting pastor Len Martin. Mr. Martin will continue to serve as pastor for the congregations in Cambridge, Columbus and Mansfield, Ohio.
As a matter of interest a CoE conference is scheduled for Feb. 26-March 1, 2018, at Big Sandy, Texas. I have been told that the choice of venue was to have a break from winter.
COGWA had a rise in 2017 of about 400 Feast attendees, mostly people from LCG checking them out.
It will be very interesting to see the official LCG figures, if they are ever released, LCG’s figures for 2016 were artificially high at 10,500 and are rumored to be well below that in 2017.
19 Nov: LCG News: LCG announces: New Congregation Starting in Morgantown, West Virginia. The headline looks good until one reads the content and realizes that they are setting up a congregation for 24 already existing members to ease their commute.
Living University will now be a facility for ministerial training. A letter will be sent out shortly explaining the new system, which they claim will benefit all brethren.
Doug Winnail writes a paragraph titled Beware of False Teachers! LCG is being rocked by the truth being published at our School of Biblical Studies, which is bringing a deluge of questions which they cannot honestly answer, and truths that they do not want to accept.
For them it is all in the math and has nothing to do with seeking the truth of the Word of God. They would rather reject the truth and maybe lose a thousand brethren, than to accept the truth and make a few minor changes which would offend the other seven thousand brethren. Their pride brings self justification, which then prevents spiritual growth; which then will get them rejection by God into strong correction. Revelation 3:14-22.
18 Nov: Leon Sexton of Legacy Institute, Chiang Mai, Thailand, has suffered a stroke.’ Leon works very hard with the brethren in Burma and Thailand.
9 Nov: LCG: We concluded a very encouraging series of Council of Elders meetings this past week in which we affirmed the need to hold onto the biblically based traditions of the Church.
They have been struggling with and have been unable to respond to questions from hundreds of brethren about the scriptural information in our book “The Biblical Sabbath and Calendar” free download on the front page is about subjects like Church Government, Ministerial Authority, and the Sanctity of The Sabbath.
Before Passover this year LU president Michael Germano attacked me and proudly declared that he could “destroy me doctrinally”. I sent him a message asking for his honest doctrinal input and he has not responded at this time!
Nevertheless the inability of the LCG ministers and their leaders to answer honest questions on the subjects from their own brethren, speaks for itself. LCG teaches that they have the right to bind and loose God’s Word, which is a horrible and indefensible affront to God the Almighty! See the book for a full explanation of “binding and loosing”.
After discussing the situation inside LCG, the Board has opted to reject the Word of God and remain chained to the false traditions of men. Of course their organizational traditions are NOT biblically based and they are actually rejecting the Word of God for the false traditions of men!
LCG Living University Folds! Living U will close as a “University” at the end of the semester and LCG will now focus on training a ministry instead of funding a “University” and seeking accreditation.
The Council of Elders has reviewed the situation, and in keeping with the clearly stated wishes of Dr. Meredith, the Council has advised that accreditation efforts be dropped, in favor of developing a more flexible, less restrictive, and more effective program to support the development of future ministers, to serve our youth, and to serve our general membership.
This has not been an easy decision as much effort has been put into Living University. Many of you have supported these efforts through your prayers and financial donations. For this we are ever grateful. However, as evidenced by the recent limitations placed on licensed universities, restrictions on conducting online classes in an increasing number of states limit our ability to serve our ministers and members.
I believe there are exciting opportunities before us regarding a variety of educational programs and I will be forming a committee next week to begin restructuring our Living Church of God educational programs to serve our ministry, our youth, and our general membership. In the meantime, classes as currently configured will continue to operate for the time being. The decision as to how we restructure will be announced in the near future. I am looking forward to explaining more about this in the weeks ahead.
In reality Living University has been a money hog, consuming large quantities of cash and attracting very little interest from potential students. The lack of interest in LU plus the downturn in regular Sabbath and Feast attendees and income, has necessitated the end of Living U as it is presently constituted.
We shall see the direction they decide to take from here, although it appears that they will go forward with an education system devoted exclusively to ministerial training [that is, indoctrinating people in LCG traditions].
Oh! If they would only turn to God with a whole heart!
UCG reports 13,941 Feast of Tabernacles 2017 attendance. The largest site was Panama City Florida with 968. 2016 UCG Feast attendance was 13,868. COGWA Feast attendance for 2017 is estimated at 9,800.
Israel Identity Issues. Most of today’s COG organizations pay lip service to some form of British Israelism which has been taught by various organizations for hundreds of years, and more recently by Herbert Armstrong.
In his publication “The United States and the British Commonwealth in Prophecy” [and in the works of other groups] Herbert actually confuses two separate Identity issues. He mixes together the national identity issue with another identity issue; the identity of the monarchs.
Let me illustrate this way; when the ten tribes were separated off from the Davidic line and given to a new king: Was Jeroboam a descendant of David? No. When ruled by a different king than one descended from David was Ephraim still Ephraim? Of course!
In other words it is NOT necessary that the British monarch be descended from David, for the British people to have descended from the tribe of Ephraim! Yet Herbert and others have confused these two issues.
There is absolutely NO doubt that the Anglo Saxon British peoples are descended from Ephraim and the Anglo Saxon American people are descended from Manasseh.
On the other hand, some very big holes have been discovered in the concept of British Monarchs being descended from David, and because Herbert intermingled the two issues there are a substantial number of elders who no longer accept the identity of the nations either.
This issue is not salvational but it is a matter of correctly understanding the Word of God.
Because many elders are now rejecting the identity of the nations due to the obvious errors in the explanations regarding the British Monarchy as Davidic, I think that it is important to go through the subject of the Davidic line in the scriptures in depth.
I am saying that there are enough inconsistencies with the scriptures about the monarchy – not the origin of the peoples – in Herbert’s book, to warrant a serious study of the scriptures about the Davidic line.
This short message is to inform people that I will be dealing with this growing issue in the foreseeable future.
6 Nov: In addition to a big drop in Feast attendance LCG weekly Sabbath attendance and income has been plummeting since the death of Rod Meredith. Gerald’s comment that “We are encouraged to report that Sabbath attendance and income in most, if not all of our offices around the world, appear to be picking up the last three months.—GEW” appears to be an attempt to conceal the losses from the various congregations by making each one think that things are better elsewhere.
Large numbers are now regularly attending other organizations. The word is now spreading that LCG is not the one and only and LCG is getting desperate to stem the tide, in the next few weeks those on the LCG membership list who’s attendance is sporadic can expect to be told to attend and pay or be struck off the rolls.
5 Nov: LCG’s Gerald Weston announces: “We are saddened to announce the recent deaths of Mr. Gary Ullerick (age 85), a longtime elder in Washington state, and Alvina Dellinger (an elder’s wife, age 79).” That is three elder deaths in the past few weeks.
There will be a meeting of “the Council of Elders this coming week for three days. Mr. Rob Tyler is coming from Australia, Mr. Stuart Wachowicz from Canada, and Mr. Adam West from the U.K. There is also a Board of Trustees meeting for Living University scheduled for Thursday.
Over the next couple of months, we will be updating our membership listings. Over the next few weeks, your pastor (or someone to whom he delegates the responsibility) will check with each head of household to make sure that our information is accurate and complete.” LCG has been experiencing a decline in attendance and income this year so extensive that they need to rewrite their membership list to get a handle on who is still attending.
Gerald Weston adds: “We are encouraged to report that Sabbath attendance and income in most, if not all of our offices around the world, appear to be picking up the last three months.—GEW” GSW’s statement that attendance is picking up refers not to any increase over past years but to the hope that this year’s decline has hit bottom.
The Journal will print its last edition at the end of January.
2 Nov: LCG: LCG seeks input from its Feast attendees to get a handle on the numbers attending to help them plan for next year. I would expect that they already know how many attended this year and the survey is to try and learn how many will be interested in attending next year.
LCG numbers are declining and one concern is how the costs affect attendance. While costs do affect many, the main reason for the decline in LCG Feast attendance seems to be unhappy people checking out other organizations.
UCG: It seems that UCG is having difficulties in enticing its youth to commit themselves and be baptized.
Victor also announces: The setting for this past week’s leadership workshop and ministerial conference for the North Central region was the beautiful Ironwood Springs Christian Ranch in Stewartville, Minnesota. The Pastoral Development Program will begin this coming Monday and run through Nov. 15. Ten couples are coming to the home office from the United States, Australia, Colombia and several countries in Africa.
1 Nov: Gary L Klar COG Toledo age 74, passed away by his wife’s side Friday evening, October 6, 2017 in Elkhart, IN.
After the breakup of Worldwide, he attended the United Church of God with his family in Toledo.
The Toledo congregation was deceived by Ron Weinland [then of UCG] into splitting from United and forming the Church of God – Toledo.
Later when Weinland attempted to take sole control of the Toledo church and its bank account, Gary was a key element working against Ron Weinland. The Toledo church split, with Ron going his way with the money [about $300,000] and Terry Wrozek, and Gary Klar remaining to seve the people who refused to follow Weinland.